عون: على الحكومة أن تضبط الأمن في الشمال والبقاع وتعيد الأمور لنصابها بعد بيان الحوار

"Clashes with machine guns erupted in Dahiyeh" I love the smell of protecting the sovereignty of Lebanon in the morning.

WOUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

haydar haydar haydar one two three four jump swing jump haydar haydar haydar hop swing hop ....

"hezbollah's arms protect the sovereignty of lebanon" Freaking brainwashed moron...

"Hezbollah has prolonged the time of occupation" - Michel Aoun 2002

www.generalaoun.org/aoun-mtv090402.pdf

This may have been true throughout Israeli occupation, but I'm not sure it still applies today.

I personally don't feel threatened from HA's arms, but alot of people do, and it is this fragmentation among Lebanese society that is dangerous, and HA's arms have a big role in that. So in the end, one could argue that HA's arms actually destabilize Lebanon because of how other sects interpret them holding onto weapons.

protect the sovereignty of the criminals, nothing else. Keep your propaganda going, none believes your lies

blah blah blah blah blah... now stand on one leg and hop for 30 seconds. Man seriously you sound like a brainwashed extremist preaching anti israeli BS. this is the same one line justification we hear from you lot over and over. You want to defend the palestinians go to gaza and fight the cause. As for Israel, their aggression against Lebanon has be IN RETALIATION FOR, your hezb's AGGRESSION.
Perhaps you should now start using the OIL EXPLORATION argument hussouny made a few weeks back for the resistance's cause.

Your a real class act there motormouth....aren't you supposed to be out playing with your alias FT in a mine field. Nice!

Good one bigsami.

hahaha

@ gcb1: No offense taken as you are as civil as I am. The only "claim" I made is a personal opinion that HA philosophy is unlikely to change from its basic theocratic underpinning which derives directly from Khomeini's Wilayat al Faqeeh proposition. You are correct of course in that HA and Iran did spend $$ to improve Shi'a's lot and I alluded to that when I said that until then not even some of Shi'a's own politicians ventured to help them improve their lot.

We disagree about the degree of pragmatism HA has shown. In my opinion, no philosophy with theocratic underpinning is capable of making the "pragmatic" leaps I expect of it - be it Moslem or Christian. I completely espouse Lenin's observation that "religion is the opiate of the masses". I also completely believe in the West's separation between Church (in this case Mosque) and state. HA is not likely to adopt those principles any time soon.

@lebnanfirst good analysis, if I may, it is Marx who said that "religion is the opiate of the masses", not Lenin.

ja ja ja ja

And lest there be any doubt in anyone's mind, just because HA stuck to its ideals and values does not make them patriots in my book because theirs is a foreign set of ideals and philosophy totally alien to the Lebanese culture as most of us understand it. But, give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, however misguided they still stick to their views. For Lebanon's sake one hopes that one day they may change or the Lebanese Shi'a in time will see them for what they are servants of a foreign state alien to Lebanese aspirations.

Do you dislike HA because of their philosophy?

@ gcb1: Absolutely! They may claim that they no longer dream of a wilayat al faqeeh but a leopard never changes its spots to say nothing of their umbilical chord being indisputably bound to Iran for good. To be honest all Lebanese should admit the fact that the Shi'a used to be the down trodden (mahroumeen) of the Lebanese society, even their own did not help pull them up. Iran exploited this via HA which helped give the Lebanese Shi'a the feeling of pride which they deserve anyway. However, HA style is like that of Hitler's that gave the German's a feeling of pride for a while until its true nature was revealed. One can only hope the Lebanese Shi'a will soon experience a similar awakening.

You make bold claims, and, through my extensive research during my time studying political science in university, I am unsure if they are facts.

You are right that they do have ideological ties to Iran. Its senior members were taught in the same or similar schools of thought than the mullahs in Iran. You claim though that HA has only given Shi3as a sense of pride, but, admittedly, HA has provided social and financial services have given many of its supporters a chance to succeed financially.

Finally, although in 1980s they wanted an Islamic state, this is simply not the case today. Many of its senior members (eg Subhi Tufayli) in 1980s left the group when it believed that HA, under Abbas Moussawi and Hassan Nasrallah, has become too pragmatic. I can give you my sources if you request.

Remember, I am not saying I support them, I'm just unsure if your claims are facts. No offense intended.

@ gcb1: No offense taken as you are as civil as I am. The only "claim" I made is a personal opinion that HA philosophy is unlikely to change from its basic theocratic underpinning which derives directly from Khomeini's Wilayat al Faqeeh proposition. You are correct of course in that HA and Iran did spend $$ to improve Shi'a's lot and I alluded to that when I said that until then not even some of Shi'a's own politicians ventured to help them improve their lot.

We disagree about the degree of pragmatism HA has shown. In my opinion, no philosophy with theocratic underpinning is capable of making the "pragmatic" leaps I expect of it - be it Moslem or Christian. I completely espouse Lenin's observation that "religion is the opiate of the masses". I also completely believe in the West's separation between Church (in this case Mosque) and state. HA is not likely to adopt those principles any time soon.

@gcb1: Last, but not least, HA's pushing Lebanon and the Lebanese to "liberate Palestine" is totally unacceptable to me. By no means am I insinuating that the Palestinians don't have a valid cause and rights, but I don't believe that it should be incumbent on the Lebanese alone to liberate Palestine as we are not the principals. HA's insistence on this alienates me and many like me. They liberated the south and for that we are thankful but since then their arrogance knows no bounds. Witness Ra'ad's attitude during the round table discussion.
I, and many like me, want to live in a Lebanon that sports an open minded society full of energy and life. A Lebanon that aspires to reach its full potential and rank high amid the nations of the world. One with freedom of speech and thought. And where women and men and work hand in hand to uplift society by exercising their collective intellect to rival the best worldwide.
Alas, I don't this Lebanon emerging from the bosom of HA's ideology.

@lebnanfirst:Thus to me, before we even talk about arms and weapons, let us keep emphasizing the importance of unity. If we are united, then perhaps everyone would be more willing to unite around the army, the one state institution that unites the population. But until sectarianism is involved our SOCIETY also, taking away Hezbollah's weapons will not do much to help people alleviate out of poverty and climb up the ladder without needing a "wasta".

Politicians, instead of bickering about who's stealing money and who's not democratic and who's serving foreign interests, should start finding ways to get people out of poverty and improve Lebanon's economic conditions. But when was the last time that happened? An M8 and M14 governments have done nothing to tackle these problems, all they do is accuse eachother. And yet, the Lebanese continue to follow them. This is what disgusts me.

@gcb1: for the most part I think we are agreed. The tenet of finding common grounds to start from in our way to unity is a logical approach and the army being the focal point is good. My concern is that throughout M8 has promised and then retracted the instances where that happened are known leading up to the Doha agreement. That on top of HA continued insistence that it will never disarm does not make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. If HA were to at least agree in Principle that they are willing to fold their arm into the LAF within some reasonable period of time and equally reasonable circumstances then I can feel hopeful. However, this insistence on the people, army and mouqawameh does not work for me.

I need a clear unequivocal signal from HA that they are ready to put Lebanon and Lebanese best interest above all else. Short of that alla ykoun bi 3anina.

When HA stop holding rallies in commemoration of the death of some spiritual leader of another country that has no relevance to the Labanese religious, political or cultural landscape then I may start to believe their claims about patriotism etc.